Josefina: Pascal, you have personally been involved in Level(s) since the very beginning, indeed you had been urging the European Commission to come up with a harmonised set of indicators for sustainable buildings even before the development of Level(s). What has been your experience as a member of the Level(s) Steering Group?

Pascal: The experience has been very positive from the start. The inclusive approach with different types of stakeholders was needed for the challenging topic of developing a sustainability assessment framework for buildings that is able to work for all the different actors in the market. The iterative approach combined with a strong anchoring within the EU policy objectives make it a stable, meaningful and promising framework.

Josefina: Your organisation was also involved in hosting four Level(s) pilot projects in France, Italy, Finland and Spain. What was your experience of the pilot projects?

Pascal: The experiences were challenging and enriching. As all four projects were already completed, it was too late to influence the design and construction of the four buildings, but it did allow us to check the robustness of their design. We were also able to compare some of the Level(s) criteria with our own Saint-Gobain reference for sustainable buildings called the Multi-Comfort framework. We will strengthen its alignment with Level(s).

Josefina: Could you tell us about one of these projects in more detail?

Pascal: We decided to test Level(s) on our new headquarters in Paris. This iconic 38 storey building with a floor surface of 49000 m² has been awarded multiple certifications at their best levels (HQE, BREEAM, LEED, Effinergie+). Testing Level(s) on this project allowed us to compare the indicators in the framework with the requirements in the different labelling schemes and how compatible they were. The same consultants carried out the different calculations and assessments: their feedback was used to deliver a detailed report on the experienced strengths and weaknesses of Level(s).

Josefina: How would you rate their implementation?

Pascal: Overall, the pilot projects have been an interesting experience and we learnt a lot. The experience gained on the pilot projects has definitely helped to improve the framework and the guidance to implement it. Yet the challenge remains to navigate between the implementation on individual buildings and the evolutions of the European policy for buildings in the short, medium and long term.

Josefina: What is your advice to the European Commission, what should be the next step now that Level(s) is launched?

Pascal: The first priority is to enlarge the understanding of Level(s) beyond the community of primary supporters and testers. Securing outreach to architects, designers and engineers will be essential to secure the objectives of “mainstreaming”.

The second priority, which supports the first one, is to integrate Level(s) in Public Procurement, in order to generate a positive dynamic on the market.

Finally, we expect a policy development, as Level(s) holds the key to the “beyond kWh/m2” regulatory questions. The indicators developed in Level(s) can indeed support essential evolutions of the EU policy framework. We hope that the preparation of a more comprehensive directive for buildings could be started soon, to at least cover the whole carbon life cycle of a buildings, beyond the operational phase.

Level(s) should target at first new buildings (this could be complemented by specific segments, e.g. commercial buildings) and major renovations, as described in the EPBD: major renovations usually follow the same design and construction path as new building constructions.

Being a flexible tool, Level(s) allows for a gradual integration of the indicators, building on a growing learning path. At a minimum, and going beyond the current focus on the operational energy, we suggest to start with the integration of Global Warming Potential and Indoor Air Quality indicators, alongside the Life-Cycle Assessment tool. Reflections should also focus on circular economy. The indoor environment quality dimension should be complemented by visual and acoustic comfort.

Josefina: What are the next steps for Level(s) in your organisation?

Pascal: In Saint-Gobain we will disseminate the final version of Level(s) now that it is out, generate knowledge and understanding about the rationale and the methodological approach, but also about the benefits, as part of our internal training programme (we run “sustainability talks” every six weeks, with a wide audience including management levels).

We will encourage its use amongst our building partners. And importantly, we will engage in public discussions to ensure smooth engagement by public authorities, notably those working with green public procurement.

As previously mentioned, we will also align the indicators in our own internal framework for sustainable buildings with those of Level(s).

Josefina: Is the world ready for Level(s)?

Pascal: I believe that the context is more favourable than ever to implement Level(s), in particular across the different policy initiatives in the Green Deal. Stakeholders in the market are asking more and more for increased sustainability in the built environment.

If Level(s) were a climb to the top of a mountain, I would say that we have the map, we’ve analysed the journey, done our basic training, and secured our basic materiel and food. We know we want to get there together. We have the motivation, and we want to aim high. But now it’s time for teams to get started. Experiencing  Level(s) will make it real.